Welcome to- The Fountain Pen Community!

jor412 · Vintage

a question about replacing a sac

Frank · Admin

Hi Issy!

Yes, The Pen Sac Company's directory is pretty helpful. Peter Amis is the owner there, and is very helpful!
As for your questions-

As far as taper/non-taper- they are fairly interchangable. You would run into problems with pens like the Evrersharp Sklyline where the barrel tapers dramatically. Some have written before that it does not matter much there either!
You should stick with the diameter size though.

The #16 is pretty standard, and goes in Esterbrook, Wearever, and others. If you put the wrong size in, it could affect how well the pen draws ink. Putting in a size too big can cause other damage as well. It can cause the pen to warp/come apart over time. It can also lead to leaks.

I actually have a concern about your statement about the parker 51. Are you talking about the Vac Fill (Plunger at the end), or an pump filler (Aero)? They are two different pen types, and use different sac setups. Pen Sac Company does illustrate this in their reference page. I do not work on 51 Vacs personally-They require special tools as well. I usually bring those pens to shows for experts to work on!

It can be confusing!! But a little practice helps! Let us know if you need help along the way!

Frank

jor412 · Vintage

Hi Frank,

My mistake about the 51. The reference to it I saw was apparently a #16 silicon necked sac for a vac fill. I dug up a bit more on the 51 vac fill and it doesn't look like something I should attempt on my own right now. Thanks for the note on interchangeability. The whole thing is a bit confusing since some suppliers have no necked sacs at all, whereas the pen sac company is pretty specific about what various kinds of pens need. Since I'm so new at all of this, it doesn't make sense to stock up on a lot of sacs.

Cheers! Issy

Chthulhu · Rawr.

Issy, the "diaphragms" for the Vacumatic and 51 Vac are only a bit different from conventional sacs:

http://dirck.delint.ca/Vacumatic%20Filler%20Refit.html

When I received my green 1945 Vacumatic, the threaded collar was stuck in the blind cap and unscrewed from the barrel, taking the filler and diaphragm with it. It had been replaced at some point many years before I received the pen, and apparently never used: it was clean and still quite supple. I was lucky enough to get it all unstuck, refolded onto itself, and back in the pen securely, with the threaded collar snugged into the barrel, and have had a functional pen since.

Even if I'd needed to replace some of the parts, I wouldn't hesitate to do the job myself. It's no more finicky than some other non-pen things I've worked on over the years.

jor412 · Vintage

Hi Mike, That's encouraging.�I've already hacked my Pilot 78G's feed, and flossed and smoothed the nib. It writes a lot better now. So that was my first, simple exercise. My next project is to replace the sac�of a lever fill sheaffer (from the pics, I think it's a craftsman) which has yet to arrive here. I got it for a pretty cheap price so I'm not worried about it as much as I would be experimenting on a pen I spent good money on.� smile

jor412 · Vintage

Today, I did my first dissection. I don't have the spare sac yet, but I disassembled my Wateman 3v to clean it out. Thankfully, taking it apart wasn't too difficult. Cleaning the dried up ink in the cap is another matter.

Now, I'm looking at the nib, feed and section, and there's something around the feed that I think is part of the old sac. Is it? And may I safely remove it?�

�

jor412 · Vintage

I figured it out after rereading various articles and looking at the section closely under a loupe. :)

DWL · ***

The 3v is a cool little pen. �

The sac end has a nipple the sac is shellaced to. The old sac has to be removed with a small sharp blade, scraping, not cutting. It needsto be 100% clear of old sac remnants. A soak in a cupof luke warm waterwill help free up the ink in the section.

Do you have an ultrasonic cleaner or small jewlery cleaner? If so, drop the section in there with water only & watch the ink flow out.�

make sure the barrel is clear of old sac as well.

jor412 · Vintage

Hi Dennis,

It is a very nice pen that is apparently underrated because of its size. I lucked out. The nib needs some smoothing because it's scratchier than it should be but it has a nice flex to it. I only dip-tested it and got a nice fine to broad line variation.

I spent some time scraping it off last night, but I wasn't confident that I'd removed all the old shellac. So ok, I'll drop it in the ultrasonic cleaner. Thanks for the tip. The barrel is already pretty clean. I picked and poked around in there bit by bit until I was sure I'd covered the entire thing. The PTA was the dried ink in the cap. I also hand polished both the barrel and cap and they're nice and shiney now. The clip has some barely noticeable brassing to it. Otherwise, the whole thing is quite pretty.�

I really enjoyed doing the exercise and I'm excited about the replacing the sac. I see a lot of pens on ebay that need sac replacement or minor repairs and they go for much cheaper than already restored pens.�

We have a small pen community here and members provide each other with free repair services. It's fun though to DIY.�

DWL · ***

I'm glad I could help. BTW, drop the cap in the US cleaner for a cycle, you'll be amazed at what comes out of a 'clean' cap.

Dropping the section/nib in the US cleaner will clear out most if not all of the dried in in there. When you get it inked up, if the flow is balky, you may need to punch the feed/nib out & do a thorough cleaning. About the scratchy nib, grab a magnifier & check the tine alignment.

jor412 · Vintage

Dennis, thanks much for the info.

I was hesitant to throw the cap into the US cleaner because of some posts I'd read about water and the plastic of vintage pens. But I'll do as you've recommended. I'm of the mind that that short time in the US cleaner will do more work for me than all the paper towels I've used up so far on getting rid of the ink in the cap. :)

I re-inspected the tines with my jeweler's loupe just now. I can't take a picture of it with my camera because of my camera's limitations. What I saw though was this:

1) The alignment is somewhat off towards the tips.
2) There's no tipping material left on either tine.
3) One tine looks like the tip was bit off. It's a pretty rough cut of the tip.

I think I'm going to spend some time smoothing the tips. From what I've read so far, the tipping on pens works to ensure the nib lasts longer than it would without tipping. I'm willing to smooth this one out and live with its short life until I can replace the nib with something more substantial.

DWL · ***

Celluloid can handle the bath, I've forgotten parts in water for days & had no problems.

"I re-inspected the tines with my jeweler's loupe just now. I can't take a picture of it with my camera because of my camera's limitations. What I saw though was this:

1) The alignment is somewhat off towards the tips.
2) There's no tipping material left on either tine.
3) One tine looks like the tip was bit off. It's a pretty rough cut of the tip. "

Yup, that sounds like it MAY contribute to some scratch on the page...lol

some 2000 grit paper for shaping & some 10K for a final polish/smooth will get that bad boy writing again.

" From what I've read so far, the tipping on pens works to ensure the nib lasts longer than it would without tipping. I'm willing to smooth this one out and live with its short life until I can replace the nib with something more substantial. "

I wouldn't try to shape the nib down to to fine of a point, the gold may not be able to handle it so well. Me, I'd try something funky cool like a flexible cursive italic or oblique. Those throw so much character into my writing,they are among my favorite nib styles.

jor412 · Vintage

I think I'll try the shaping and smoothing of the nib but just to get it writing. Flexible cursive sounds a lot more difficult and I haven't had enough play time with any nib to risk it at this point :)

jor412 · Vintage

My attempts at making a knock out block failed. I couldn't handle the power drill and didn't want to continue risking my hands forcing the issue. My pilot holes started in one place and were apparently diagonal. So I'm off to the hardware store later to find a suitable ready-made alternative. I saw a youtube video on knocking out a feed. It was really instructive and now that I've seen a demo, I think I can find some replacement that won't cost me $35 plus shipping and taxes.�

BTW a friend gifted me with a Mabie Todd. I've disasssembled it as well and I'm now in the process of cleaning it of the ossified sac. :)

Chthulhu · Rawr.

You do need a drill press, or at least a drill guide to let you make the holes perpendicular to the surface of the wood. You should use wood that's at least harder than pine, and it should be clamped in a vice or to the drill press table.

I don't think you'll find anything to substitute for the block itself in a hardware store, but you might find a drill guide. This is one type:

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100349264/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

jor412 · Vintage

Thanks Mike. If I buy a drill guide, though, I might as well buy the knockout block.� smile

I saw a flare tool at the hardware store. I think plumbers use it and the low cost version has 5 holes of different sizes. The Stanley version has 6 holes. I think I can temporarily mount the flare tool on a block of wood when I need to knock out something. I'll inspect it really well to figure out if it'll work. I saw the video below and the process itself looks pretty straightforward.�

Edit to add:�

Even if I had a guide, I think I'd still need a stronger arm and hand to manage the drill. The vibration was too much for me and while I like trying things out, I was rather afraid I'd slip and damage something or hurt myself. My other alternative if the flare tool doesn't pan out is to have someone drill the holes for me. :)

-- Edited by jor412 on Monday 27th of June 2011 01:11:07 AM

Chthulhu · Rawr.

The flaring tools I'm thinking of are steel, split in two halves through the centers of the holes, have shallow tapers at the edges of the holes (to make the flares), and ridges inside the holes (to grip the tubing). It might work, but take extra care so as not to damage your nibs, feeds, and sections when using it.

jor412 · Vintage

Chthulhu wrote:
The flaring tools I'm thinking of are steel, split in two halves through the centers of the holes, have shallow tapers at the edges of the holes (to make the flares), and ridges inside the holes (to grip the tubing). It might work, but take extra care so as not to damage your nibs, feeds, and sections when using it.

�

That's it exactly! I'm thinking I might add something inside the holes or coat them to protect the feeds/sections.�

Chthulhu · Rawr.

I have some nice chunks of an unidenitified hardwood; I may have to make a block of my own.

jor412 · Vintage

I got the flare tool and it looks like it'll work. All I need do is cover the threads (maybe w/ electric tape or felt) every time I a pop a section into it to avoid scratching the plastic. The tool can be widened so if there's something that doesn't quite fit the given holes, I can just adjust it.

I have another question: I'm thinking of knocking out the feeds of the pens I need to resac just to give them a more thorough cleaning before I resac them. Is that necessary? Or will the ammonia solution be enough?