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Waterman ID anyone?
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I'm attempting to identify this Waterman pen. I bought it from the UK as a 503 which it is not. Identifying marks on nib are "Waterman Ideal England 2B". On the barrel is "Waterman's.. Made in "Ideal" England... Fountain Pen".   Clip has "Waterman's".  Looks a bit like a 32 or a junior, but not either and I can't find a picture of a waterman pen anywhere that fits this one. Does anyone have a number for it or does it have a number? Thanks



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additional pic.



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32 was my first thought, what makes it NOT a 32 or Jr.?

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The clip is right on the junior and the 32, but the lever shape doesn't quite match.  If I have these images on here right, from ebay, the top pic is supposed to be a 32. The clip looks right, but not the lever. 

The second comes from ebay also and it is supposed to be a celluloid 52.  The clip and the lever both look right to me.  I'm not too famaliar with the waterman 52 celluloid, but if the 2nd ebay pic is accurate, then it looks to me like my pen should be a black 52 celluloid.  Would I be right in my thinking?


http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o111/nicmar1/21-0234-A12-B.jpg


http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o111/nicmar1/Bk2zlwgWkKGrHqEOKjcEs4oEGqm0BLZV-1.jpg


http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o111/nicmar1/100_2001.jpg


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Dang!!!  Forgot to put the image brackets in and don't know how to delete the previous post.  So a do over.

The clip is right on the junior and the 32, but the lever shape doesn't quite match.  If I have these images on here right, from ebay, the top pic is supposed to be a 32. The clip looks right, but not the lever. 

The second comes from ebay also and it is supposed to be a celluloid 52.  The clip and the lever both look right to me.  I'm not too famaliar with the waterman 52 celluloid, but if the 2nd ebay pic is accurate, then it looks to me like my pen should be a black 52 celluloid.  Would I be right in my thinking?




http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o111/nicmar1/100_2001.jpg
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Sem


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Hi,

I can assure that your second picture is of a 52, because it's from one of my current listings. It's Canadian made and bears the model number on the barrel end. Celluloid 52s, as you would expect, came at the end of that model's run, in the mid-nineteen-thirties. If it was an attempt to restore the fortunes of what had once been Waterman's most popular model, it didn't succeed. Despite shortening the pen and tapering it slightly, it was too outdated to be competitive. Though by no means rare, you don't see celluloid 52s that often. Some of the coloured celluloids used are very beautiful and these pens are much sought after.

 

To get back to the subject of English-made 52-like Watermans, it's confusing, to say the least. If you look at my ebay listing No 280458964352, at first glance it might be taken to be a celluloid 52. Same shape, same nib, same clip, but the difference lies in the lever, which isn't boxed, and the diameter, which is slightly greater. It's also a little shorter than the standard late 52, but there's a lot of variation in the length of individual examples of models of pens anyway. It has no model number. A few weeks ago, I repaired a black chased hard rubber English Waterman which shared clip, nib, lever and box with the 52, but it was noticeably longer and thinner. It had no model number or name.

 

My various reference works don't cover English Watermans very well and these no-number pens aren't mentioned at all. It's not really my area either I usually concentrate more on British Mabie Todd pens, English Parkers and Conway Stewarts, but if I come across any new information I'll report back. I think advertisements of the time are the only likely source of sound identification.

Regards,

Sem



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